Episode 34: 2024 in review and looking forward to 2025

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Transcript of the recording

Elizabeth (Liz) Dempsey:
Hi everyone. Happy New Year and welcome to The PayPod. I'm Liz Dempsey, Manager of Event Strategy and Engagement at Payments Canada, and I'll be your host today. I think we can all say that 2024 was a year to remember for payments and, already in the first few weeks, 2025 is going to be an even bigger year for both payments in Canada and payments for Canadians. Joining me today to talk about the highlights from 2024 and what they're most looking forward to in 2025 are our Stakeholder Advisory Council (SAC) Chair, Daniela Aubry of Metrolinx, and Payments Canada CFO, Kristina Logue. Welcome.

Daniela Aubry:
Thanks Liz. Happy New Year. Great to be here.

Kristina Logue:
Yes, Liz. Thanks for having us.

Liz Dempsey:
Alright, let's get right to the questions. We'll get into the forward-focused questions in just a minute, but first, a little bit of retrospect. With everything that happened in payments in Canada in 2024 — and a lot happened — what were each of your standout moments in 2024? What impacted your organizations the most and what were you most excited to see happen? Daniela, we'll start with you.

Daniela Aubry:
Thanks, and what a great question. For us here at Metrolinx and at Payments Canada as part of the SAC, 2024 was a massive year of accomplishments and steps forward and milestones on progress. At Metrolinx in 2024 on the payments team, we saw a great deal of launches and program expansions that enhance the customer experience with Presto and make it easier for them to choose transit first.

One program that we're immensely proud of is Ontario's One Fare program, which launched at the beginning of 2024 and allows customers to pay a single ride fare when transferring between TTC and GO Transit, or TTC and a bordering transit agency including Brampton Transit, Durham, MiWay and York. This program has been highly successful as it allows customers to begin and end their journey on a single fare. It's a great benefit for customers who regularly commute across all of our transit systems. To date, we've seen over 25 million transfers have been made using this program and we've saved commuters more than $81 million collectively. It was an amazing collaboration across the industry and the network of our transit agency partners to bring this program to fruition and we're so excited that it launched to the success that it did over the past year.

The second major milestone that you may have heard of is the launch, in July, of the introduction of Presto in Apple Wallet. This made Presto the first transit agency card in Canada available in Apple Wallet. We now have both Google and Apple Wallet available for our customers and we've seen, collectively, 37 million taps on this platform. I wanted to pause and just share that that launch, again, took collaboration across the industry of our transit agency partners and the network providers that we work with, and it was something that customers had been asking us for for a long time; it was probably the number one most requested enhancement. Since launch, I've heard from so many peers and customers about how excited and simpler their lives are now that that card is available in their mobile wallets, and it's so exciting to get that really positive feedback. We also continued to see Presto contactless options grow; so that's using Interac Debit or credit cards to tap and pay for transit across the region. This gained momentum in 2024 and grew in popularity by 12 per cent. Today, one in three Presto taps are from Presto in mobile wallets and contactless payments.

Finally, sort of the third piece I wanted to note in 2024 with Metrolinx is the expanded Presto Perks program. We have over 140 businesses that we partner with and this allows Presto cardholders discounts on dining, entertainment and attractions. That is a big important thing for me as I look to travel across the region with my kids. We've got March break coming up and I use Presto Perks to get discounts on various attractions across the city — GTHA and Ottawa.

I think broadly, in 2024, we were able to advance the payment system for customers with really positive feedback and we're so proud of the work that we've done. If I shift gears a little bit, as chair of the Payments Canada SAC, we continued the work on the Real-Time Rail (RTR) delivery with one major milestone of the alignment to include fraud in the release one scope of the RTR. Inclusion and recourse in our payment systems is one of the main priorities of SAC and having fraud as a central core capability and aligned across the industry was a massive step forward in 2024 that allows us to lead to a successful delivery upcoming. Continuing work on the RTR for 2024 to ensure Canadian customers have the best possible payment experience when it launches is definitely something the SAC prioritized throughout the year.

Liz Dempsey:
Great, thanks Daniela. And as a big user of transit myself, I can attest that the system is so seamless and it's amazing to hear about the collaboration that happens behind the scenes to make that happen. Kristina, how about you?

Kristina Logue:
Thanks Liz. And congratulations, Daniela, to you and Metrolinx for all the success in '24. I think, like Liz, I'm an avid transit user as well and personally appreciate all of the efforts that you've put in, and so do my children, as we use your systems across multiple cities. When I reflect back on 2024 for Payments Canada, it was a pretty big year. I would say there are a number of things to highlight, but I'll pick just a few that kind of stand out in my mind for what made 2024 so great.

We often talk about modernization and the Real-Time Rail, but before I get into that there's some other really great things that happen that I think that are noteworthy and we should be celebrating as well. The first one is around the bill payment public consultation. So this is one of those areas that, again, is not often talked about when we have the impending introduction of a new rail coming to Canada, but this public consultation is extremely important and is something that has long been asked for by our participants as well. So that was something to really celebrate in 2024.

As well as, and this one's a little more related to modernization, changes to our Canadian Payments Act (CP Act). So this was a very large piece of work that's been going on for a number of years. A lot of consultations went into this as well, but it received royal assent in 2024. So that was a really key milestone for us as an organization and for the entire payment ecosystem so that we can continue to move forward and really drive value out of the investments we're making in our payment system so that there is more opportunity and equal opportunity for participants in the future.

We hosted, and big kudos to Liz and the team here, one of our best The SUMMITs yet. So this is the premier payment conference for Canada, and it was a wild success of bringing so many different partners and participants across the payment ecosystem together to share in thought leadership and collaborate for our future. So a really, really standout moment for me this year was the success of The SUMMIT.

Now when I think to the RTR: So Daniela spoke to this one a little bit already, but we did have a major moment in 2024 when we had the support to introduce real-time capabilities with the launch of some fraud capabilities at go-live. So this is really key and it's a huge milestone not just for RTR or participants, but I think for Canada as a whole. When you think about other jurisdictions that have gone live with their real-time payment systems, this is really that next step up where we're able to launch with fraud capabilities on day one. So a really important milestone and looking forward to continuing to collaborate with the ecosystem on this.

And in that vein of working with the ecosystem, I feel like we had a real shift in how we're working together to deliver the RTR in Canada in 2024. And that was really a really big push and support for more of a team Canada approach where all partners are involved together to help drive this forward. So we have alignment not just internally and with our board, but with our stakeholders, with our members and with our partners to help us deliver this as well. And that momentum has really given us that push that we need to help see this come to light.

And I would be remiss not to speak about our new CEO. So we had a change in leadership in Payments Canada in 2024, so we've welcomed Susan Hawkins to our organization partway through the year and really excited to see how her leadership also helps drive these important pieces of work forward into '25 and beyond.

Liz Dempsey:
A really big year filled with milestones! And on an individual level, you were both nominated for and won a Women in Payments award this fall: Daniela for innovation, and Kristina for inspiration. I'm putting you both on the spot here, but can you tell us a little bit more about that experience?

Daniela Aubry:
Sure, happy to. And I can't say enough about the Women in Payments organization and the work that it does to both recognize and uplift women in the payment space. The Innovation Award that I was fortunate enough to win celebrates impactful innovators in the payment space. The nomination really recognized the work of the New Ways to Pay program here at Presto, which included the enablement of debit and credit payments across our network, Presto and Apple and Google Wallet, as I kind of shared with you earlier, and e-tickets. Winning this award made it a very special year. The team that I work with in payments has had an amazing year and I share this award with all of them. The work we do isn't always easy — so it requires determination, resilience, persistence — and winning this award was a really great form of validation. I think for us all, Presto has had many launches this year that mean a lot to Ontarians. To have been successful in those I think makes us feel fortunate, both for the support of my team personally and the support of my family. It's always wonderful to have some formal recognition for the work that we do and it was wonderful to win. I think I'm looking forward to now continuing to grow and mentor other talented women and I hope to see one of them win the award next year.

Liz Dempsey:
Wonderful. And Kristina, can you tell us about your experience?

Kristina Logue:
Yeah, sure. I'm happy to. So I was nominated for the Inspiration Award. It came as a surprise, to say the least, I think, even that I was nominated. This category in the awards is meant to recognize women who provide inspiration through either thought leadership or mentorship in the payment ecosystem. And I was nominated, in large part, for the work that I do in terms of helping drive a vision forward for payments in Canada and providing what I feel like is a platform for all voices to be heard and bringing people together to help drive our agenda forward. What did it feel like to win on that day? So it came as a surprise, like I said, and I feel like that was probably a common feeling across all of the nominees and winners. Daniela, if you think back to that night, I think the first word out of everyone's mouth was, “Oh gosh, I can't believe it was me!” So there was definitely that element of surprise and I think really immense pride and gratitude. So I really felt, and I still feel, like every aspect of leadership should be celebrated and it was really rewarding to me to be nominated and to win in this category in particular because I do have a quieter sense of leadership. I feel like it's our collective responsibility to help raise all voices around the table, whether or not you're more the loud and outgoing, gregarious type of leader or a quieter leader in the background that's helping lift others up. And I think that's something I like to continue with as we move forward, is to continue to provide that space for all voices to come to the table. And it doesn't matter the style of your leadership — we all have a really important role to play in helping lead this ecosystem forward.

Liz Dempsey:
Definitely inspirational stories from innovative women. Thank you! Now let's look at 2025, which will certainly be an exciting year for payments in Canada. What are each of you focused on? How will you deliver and where will you be by the end of the year?

Daniela Aubry:
2025 is a bit of a different year for us. It's very much a year of transformation. We have a very large transition program underway, which really enables a shift from our primary technology vendor to a multi-contract vendor following the completion of a competitive procurement in late 2024. So throughout this year, we're actually going to be continuing to advance the Presto transformation program and this will allow us to move from that single vendor to a multi-vendor base. It also helps to enable technology that's on the newest type of platforms — API-based, modular, cloud-based — and will ensure that we are flexible, secure and consistent for the years ahead. This program will bring new capabilities to our customers and our transit agency clients, but one of the key things is maintaining the quality of service and ensuring the whole transition is seamless for our customers. That's the largest priority. As you can imagine, this will require a collective effort and meticulous detail across our team and our industry partners to ensure that we're delivering successfully and we've landed that program with the right level of quality and ease for our customers.

In terms of the work on SAC, as I mentioned, one of our priorities is on inclusion and recourse and an inclusive payment system that considers all users and ensures that no one's left behind. So at SAC, we continue to work with Payments Canada to incorporate ways to advocate for users, whether it's when bylaws and regulations are drafted, rules or simply just the payment flows that are happening through the system, and looking for those opportunities to think about those customers that may not always have a voice when we're developing these types of payment systems. By the end of 2025, I'm excited that we'll have continued the work on inclusion and on recourse. And recourse would be ensuring that customers have a clear path forward when their payments have gone wrong, if they've been frauded or they've been a victim of a social engineering fraud, understanding the steps that they can take to help rectify that is so important. And as we look to advance the payment system with Payments Canada, answering each of those questions through the process is absolutely a priority for SAC for the year ahead.

And again, I can't emphasize enough, I think how pleased we are with fraud in-scope of the program delivery for the Real-Time Rail, the RTR. So continuing to see and manage how that comes to light for customers and for clients of the system is going to be a focus for the year.

Liz Dempsey:
Great, thanks Daniela. And Kristina, what are your top priorities going into 2025?

Kristina Logue:
Well, Daniela will be thrilled that fraud and RTR are still very much in those top priorities for the year. Before I get to those though, we can't forget that we still operate our current systems, right? So we have a mandate to provide safe, sound resilient payment systems to the ecosystem, and that's always top of mind for us. So regardless of where we're at in our modernization journey, just to say that our top priority is making sure that our Lynx and ACSS and our CSN are always up and available and resilient for the payment ecosystem. And while we do that, we also turn our eyes to the future and how we continue down this journey of modernizing and delivering a rail for Canada, so that Real-Time Rail, including fraud. So our focus and our top priority as an organization is around strategically setting up the RTR aligned with fraud. So a lot of work and integrating those two project plans together so that we have the ability to deliver not just on the technical abilities, but also any rules that need to surround both of those systems so that we are in a position where we can start doing some testing on these systems within 2025. So this is a really big year for Payments Canada in terms of what we're delivering and getting lined up for: industry tests coming shortly on the heels of this year.

Alongside of that, as CFO I do need to mention that my focus is also on the cost of these programs. So these are large, multi-year, multi-pillar workstream types of programs that can get quite complex. And I have an overarching goal around how we ensure that we meet our deliverables and execute against our mandate, but doing this in a way that allows for a competitive price that ultimately will allow Canada to continue to be competitive. So that's an overall goal of mine that we work internally to try to achieve so that we have a rail that helps elevate Canada in the global economy. So from an RTR program and fraud perspective, that's definitely a priority; maintaining and operating our current systems. And we also have in there, looking at our current systems and we can't forget that they also have some roadmaps and improvements that can be made to them as well. So we do have an eye to how we look at our retail batch system, so ACSS, and how we ensure that that still upholds the safety and soundness requirements of our regulators.

Alongside this, I think it's really important to also maintain the momentum that we've had as an industry. So I spoke earlier about in '24, one of our great successes was really around a “Team Canada” approach in helping drive our programs forward. We need to continue with that. We need to maintain a focus and an eye to partnership and all stakeholders around the table being engaged so that we can continue to move this forward. And I would say by the end of 2025, if I think about ultimately what would success look like at '25, we've had systems that have been up and running flawlessly throughout the year as well as a new system that we're ready to hand over to the industry for some industry testing.

Liz Dempsey:
Looking more broadly at the payment ecosystem, what do each of you think will be the biggest topic to follow in 2025? What will impact payments in Canada the most?

Daniela Aubry:
I mean, it's a great question. There's probably two things and you can't have one without the other. And the first being trust and continuing to ensure, as Kristina just mentioned, the resiliency and robustness, safety and soundness of all the payment systems that the collective of us are accountable for. And that's using all the tools that we have in our toolbox to ensure that we're managing fraud properly, to ensure that we're increasing awareness of social engineering and helping customers get educated further and understand the tools that they have in their toolbox to protect themselves. And so I can't underscore enough sort of the importance of trust in the systems that we are supporting broadly. It also underpins the motivations for everything that we do. So as each of us respectively — here within payments, at Payments Canada, across the ecosystem — if we approach our work keeping kind of the trust as central and thinking about how our customers can access and use this system, we’ll continue to earn their trust and continue to reinforce the safety and soundness of our systems.

So the second piece I would flag is, what would be an area to watch or what would be really exciting, if we understood all of the pieces required for new entrants to come into the market. Whether that's to join Payments Canada directly or through partnerships, but looking to have partnerships across the ecosystem that bring new and exciting offerings to customers. We have space in Canada to do that. We have opportunity to do that. We've got great innovative companies throughout the marketplace. And so understanding some of those key steps over the year and seeing who decides to take advantage of them and bring new and exciting offerings to the marketplace, I think is one of the areas I'm most excited about and definitely will be keeping an eye on.

Liz Dempsey:
Great. And Kristina, what do you think will be the big topic in 2025?

Kristina Logue:
I'll kind of follow along a little bit with what Daniela was saying and I think as we think about trust and bringing in new entrants, those are really, really important and relevant points. And I think I would follow along with that. And I think about what needs to happen in '25 is a greater connectedness. So I know I spoke about partnership and collaboration, but I think even going further than that: how do we get more connected as an ecosystem? How do we better understand what the needs are of all of the users of the system so that we can continue to drive value? So it's less about what I think that the trends are in payments, Liz. This is more about, I think a big topic of discussion in payments this year will be: what are those use cases that are going to really drive value across the ecosystem and how can Payments Canada facilitate that conversation and help connect across the ecosystem to help drive some of that value onto our systems? And a part of that will come with education as well. And I think there's a key role for us to play in that space. And The SUMMIT is a great place to kind of start these conversations as well. So there's something about this connectedness, educating that I think will come up often throughout the year. A better understanding of, so it's less about now the technology and the delivery and let's shift our minds to, okay, how are we going to really leverage these systems? How will existing participants leverage it? How will the new participants who are coming into the system, what are they looking to get out of this and how can we help connect all those dots for everyone?

And then secondly, I think something which I have no real opinion or thoughts really on but I think could be impactful to payments would be: is there a potential election coming up? I think we can all agree there is a potential election. What will the impacts of that election be on payments and to our ecosystem? So I don't have a crystal ball, but I am waiting with anticipation to see what the potential outcomes of that would be for our ecosystem.

Liz Dempsey:
Daniela and Kristina, thank you both for such an insightful conversation. It sounds like 2025 will be an incredible year for modern payments in Canada.

Daniela Aubry:
Thank you Liz, and thanks Kristina. It was a great discussion and I'm always excited to geek out on payments topics.

Kristina Logue:
Thanks for being here, Daniela. And Liz, thanks to you for hosting us. This was a really great conversation and I look forward to continuing it throughout 2025.

Liz Dempsey:
Wonderful. Before we sign off, be sure to visit thesummit.ca to stay up-to-date on the latest announcements related to The SUMMIT. As Kristina mentioned, it's Canada's premier payment event and it's happening in Toronto from May 6 to 8 2025. I'm Liz Dempsey. Thanks for joining us for this episode of The PayPod.